Han-kyul Kwon: The Other Side Of Everything

Navel-Gazers #83 is an interview with Han-kyul Kwon who is going to talk to us about The Other Side Of Everything. I have a confession to make: I don’t always care for concept albums. It’s a statement which is pretty vague given the nebulous nature of the term “concept album”, but I suppose that when I observe a single premise being left to play out programatically over the course of an album, or in a performance or in any artistic offering really, I tend to get a bit bored. Now and then however, an artist introduces a concept so singular, so rich, that I wind up absolutely spellbound. ‘The Other Side Of Everything’ is comprised strictly of incidental audio from iPhone Live Photos which, if you’re familiar with the feature, are actually 3-second video clips. What’s striking about this is not only the clips being short, each one imparting only momentary sonic information before moving on to the next, but also their lack of artistic intention. They’re offcuts, audio detritus from moments in Han-kyul’s life which I imagine to be artistically mundane, soundwise that is: moments when one happens to be taking a photo. And their repurposing here - in a way which is not at all how the manufacturer would have intended - is a most lucrative experiment. This album is a fun listen, and its 3-seconds quasi-rhythm is ticking along in my head as Han-kyul dials in to talk to me from faraway South Korea. Let’s learn more!

AC: Thanks for joining me on Navel-Gazers! Please tell us about your background, who are you?

Han-kyul Kwon: Thank you for having me and for having an interest in my album. My name is Han-kyul, I’m a musician based in South Korea, working and living in Seoul. I studied classical music composition in university, but since I was young I was really into hip-hop. When I was studying composition I was active as a rapper and also a producer. Because of that experience, I thought that I’d do electronic music or other underground stuff rather than classical music.

I think I’m the kind of guy that’s always moving around from one music scene to another. Classical music to hip hop, or dance music to ambient music, expanding my musical spectrum.

I started my career as a DJ in 2015, it was the year before I graduated. I’d been doing that for several years but I had to stop because of the pandemic in 2020. I was starting to make some music with environmental sounds, when all the dance clubs shut down in Seoul. That was a really big moment for me, like so many musicians.

AC: For sure. …I’ve never encountered an album quite like ‘The Other Side Of Everything’, but it’s constructed using a concept which is easy to understand. Could you explain the idea, and do you remember when you first got it?

Han-kyul Kwon: I remember the first time I thought about the idea, in 2022. I was trying to make an album that would express a feeling inside me about real physical space. And the first motivation was… a kind of failure.

I made an entire album, and I had to discard all of it. I’d naturally made it with the tools in mind: styles, genres and techniques that I’d already used before, like hip-hop beats, house music, that kind of stuff. I was so used to sounds that are always being used to describe certain feelings or moods. So this first album was - style-wise - house, lounge or ambient music. After I finished it, I had to ask myself: why should I make electronic music when I want to express some kind of feeling inside of me?

This idea got stronger and stronger as time went by. I had to think about what sound could contain my life, without any intention to express something. It was hard at first. I couldn’t make any musical choices. I couldn’t put any notes or rhythms in my music, because I felt that those kinds of thoughts are from other artists, other music, just some influence, not me. I felt so much emptiness about that. I just couldn’t use those techniques to express genuine emotions.

AC: Did you discard the other album?

Han-kyul Kwon: I didn’t release it, and I just gave up on it. I still have some kind of connection to that album but I don’t know what to do with it. It’s… something in the middle.

AC: It’s part of the story of this album now.

Han-kyul Kwon: Yes.

AC: What you said reminded me of my friend Ed Shipsey, when he counters the way people use the term “abstract”. He would point to something like notation in classical music, and say that’s abstract, whereas something like what you’re doing - recording directly from your experience - is really less abstract. So I guess when you were constructing with the beats and such, the systematic way that’s organised is this kind of an abstraction. But with these clips, you are projecting directly.

Han-kyul Kwon: Yes. …the thoughts I had at that time were so complex and so huge for me. I felt that I had to reset my ears. I really wanted to be blank status.

At first I thought about some recordings on my phone that I never used. I have so many, in voice memos. Things I recorded because the sound itself was interesting, but never tried to use. I tried to use that as the main material, but it has intention in the first place. I just had to find another way.

I don’t know how, but I noticed the Live Photo feature is technically a video of two or three seconds. I used to use that feature to pick out certain frames, but I found out it also has sound. I was kind of shocked because when I listened to the sounds without images, I couldn’t tell where these sounds came from. I only thought about the image when I took the picture. So, this idea to explore these sounds from my life, that I never noticed before… it was kind of a big bang inside my head.

From that moment I could start to think about the sound from a new perspective. So this project was not about making an album really, it was about finding a new way to listen to sound.

AC: I’m glad to hear, having chosen this topic of discussion, how important the experience was for you.

From the iPhone Live photos we are hearing 3-second audio fragments from your day to day life. Tell us about these clips. What are some things that were going on in your life during this period, which we are briefly witnessing?

Han-kyul Kwon: I used the Live Photo feature from around 2018, maybe when the feature came out. The photos are really mundane daily pictures of streets, nature, my girlfriend, my friends.

There is not so much to mention about the photos themselves, but track 3 To Listen To Nothing is made with a specific month’s sounds, March 2023, it was the month that the cat I had was gone. On the project, I always organised the whole month’s sounds at the end of the month, but that month because of that big event I was so sad that I just couldn’t listen to the sounds again.

Two months later, I could finally start to organise the sounds from March. The thing I found out was that when really sad things happen in your life, there are no active sounds in your videos too. All I took was my sick cat. I really wanted to remember him. Usually when I take a picture inside my home, there’s some music or some noises but the whole month was so quiet. I chose only moments that don’t evoke any feelings, to make track number three.

During the process of the project there were many life events, but the event that my cat was gone was the most memorable and huge one.

AC: So that entire track is from that period, March 2023?

Han-kyul Kwon: Yes. Each track has sounds from different timelines. Part 1 is one year’s sounds, of 2022. Part 2 is six months from another time, kind of like that.

AC: Isn’t it interesting to think what would happen if you did the same exact thing with someone else’s iPhone Live photos? I wonder in what ways it would sound similar, in what ways it would sound different?

Han-kyul Kwon: It would be really interesting. Maybe if you tried my method, it would be so different because you’re living in another country. The way people talk, bird sounds, car sounds, ambulances would all be different. It might have similar patterns, but the tones of sounds and textures would be different.

AC: Yes. And yet, you can’t really tell where it’s from. Like you can’t tell these sounds are from Korea, but imagine somewhere really different - imagine someone from Nigeria does it, or at the North Pole. I think you still couldn’t say where it’s from exactly but it would sound totally different.

Han-kyul Kwon: Yeah and also the sound is from photos. So it means that when you’re visually attracted, you record the sound. I don’t know what you’d take a picture of, so it’s different.

AC: …oh so it also differs from person to person you mean.

Han-kyul Kwon: Person to person.

AC: Yeah good point. That’s right.

Han-kyul Kwon: I once tried to share this method to other artists, two years ago. Here’s the link… it was in Berlin, there are some guys who run this independent experimental radio called Oolong Radio. I wanted to share my method with them so we could broadcast a livestream with this idea. We spent one day each, and then gathered with the photos we took with the iPhone Live feature - along with some short videos from some who don’t use iPhones. We also talked about what’s in the image after we played the sound.

It was really funny, and a good way to know each other. It can tell you lots of things about people.

AC: I also wonder if the soundscape is different at the typical times when a person is taking a photo? Like imagine if you recorded two entire years (1,051,200 minutes) of your life on your iPhone, and then took a random selection of 3-second excerpts, would it sound different?

Han-kyul Kwon: I think for me, the ratio of music would be higher. Usually I listen to music a lot, and when I’m really focusing on listening to something I don’t take photos.

And the sound of really private moments when you’re not taking photos: using the bathroom, sleeping… haha.

AC: Oh yeah do you know who Yan Jun is?

Han-kyul Kwon: Yes. He recently had a show here. 

AC: Yeah he actually has this thing where he has people send him audio of them sleeping. So people from all around the world will send him 8 hours audio of that, he has a whole Bandcamp page for it. It’s of course extremely minimal, essentially just the sound of a room, maybe sometimes someone is snoring. …but in the same way as this, they each sound a little different.

Han-kyul Kwon: Right. So basically I think this would be interesting but it would be a huge amount of work to do.

AC: Certainly would.

Matthew Blackwell on Bandcamp Daily described this album as a “documentary”. Do you think these distinctions apply to music: narrative versus documentary, fiction versus non-fiction?

Han-kyul Kwon: In one way I can fully agree with that. But I don’t think there needs to be just one answer, because it’s not only sounds I want to archive, but also a method to process those feelings, confusion, emptiness about music as I mentioned. I had to invent some way to express something and at the same time, to connect my life to the music/art world.

…and I really don’t think there are strict lines, between narrative and documentary for example.

AC: In general?

Han-kyul Kwon: In general, especially these days. Also another reason I had to think about this idea was the rise of LLM technology. When I see how the world is changing and old trends are coming back again and again, it’s something that’s really trying to compress ideas into short descriptions, into words.

When you don’t know so well about something, you just have to use your own feelings and your own thoughts to process, but the trend these days is to try and flatten and describe everything in words.

AC: Music really does challenge that. So, maybe those distinctions don’t hold.

Han-kyul Kwon: Yeah and when I’m listening to some other artists’ field recording albums, even if they say it is not processed at all, just raw recordings of some place or whatever, I can also feel the intention. Microphones and equipment were used… you know, even if it’s called documentary, there is some point of view.

AC: …I guess that’s really true of documentary films as well.

Han-kyul Kwon: Yes it is.

AC: Also is there any relation to the Serbian documentary film ‘The Other Side Of Everything’, or is it just a coincidence?

Han-kyul Kwon: No I’ve never heard about that!

AC: Neither had I, I just came across it preparing for this.

Han-kyul Kwon: The Korean original title 모든 것 이외의 나머지 has a little bit of a different nuance to the English title. If I directly translate the Korean one, it would be “something left beside everything”.

AC: Oh I see, interesting.

Han-kyul Kwon: Yeah, like remainder.

AC: Aha. I see.

A quick question, why is ‘The Other Side Of Everything 2’ track 1, and ‘The Other Side Of Everything 1’ track 2?

Han-kyul Kwon: Right. Well, I put the numbers because of the order that I made them. Number one was like a prototype, I made it when I first figured out how to start the project in 2022. Number two I made in 2024 - these ones are not fixed recordings, these are excerpts, randomly played in a certain sequence. It’s endless sounds played by a sampler in real time. So the two are made using different methods.

But, I liked number two the most, so I put it at the beginning!

AC: This album was released on a label called Jungle Gym, based in California. How did you link up with them?

Han-kyul Kwon: I didn’t know about this label before I tried to release the album. Originally, I released the project as a sound installation and performance in 2024. After the performance I organised the whole thing to make an album, and I had to find a label. But in Korea, I think there were no labels to release my album. It’s really uncommon.

I listened to so much music on Bandcamp to learn about independent labels, eventually sent an email to Jungle Gym and thankfully they really had an interest in my album. They released it on Bandcamp and also on CDs. I have the CDs from them, some of which I put in record stores in Seoul who sell experimental music. So, I did the maximum of what I could do here!

AC: It looks like a cool label, with loads of releases.

What’s it like doing experimental music in Korea? Do you know many other artists?

Han-kyul Kwon: When I finished this project, ‘The Other Side Of Everything’, I was seeking a place that I could have an installation and a performance here, it was also difficult. It’s really uncommon, and this project also needs some effort from the audience too. The sound itself is kind of simple, but there’s a lot going on in the background of it.

I’m doing experiments in music, but then in some places there’s a genre called “experimental music”.

AC: Haha.

Han-kyul Kwon: You know what I mean?

AC: Yes, I do.

Han-kyul Kwon: So, in Korea many things are going on in experimental music too recently. There are some new venues where people come together and play improvisation, or small shows which invite musicians that do live laptop performance with Pure Data, Max, that kind of thing. It’s nice to see what’s happening right now, but I also find it’s something which can only be described in a simple way: we are doing free improvisation, we are doing computer music.

It’s understandable because it’s still new here. The 'experimental' music or free improvisation has been here for decades, but still uncommon and very underground. I think right now if you try to do too many things all together, people can get confused about what you’re going to do. In this moment, people are figuring out how to introduce their music to audiences. When something new is happening somewhere, there must be something familiar or consistent so it can be continued.

So I had to find not music show venues, but galleries. Many musician friends I know have much more strict lines about music, I think. But I found that other types of artists are open to new sounds and really tried to understand my project. I did my performance at a venue called Windmill. They were interested in the project because they saw it as a performance with listening.

AC: I’m glad you found a home for it.

…could I ask where people are doing free improvisation?

Han-kyul Kwon: There is a place called Dotolim, more than a decade old I think. The guy who runs the place is one of the pioneers of experimental music in Korea. He’s been running the place for a long time, and he puts in so much effort to keep the scene going.

AC: Do you go there?

Han-kyul Kwon: For the shows, just to watch. It’s a symbolic venue, an important place in Seoul. Then, there are many other groups of people who get together, who never met before and get together and play whatever instrument they brought.

AC: Just like we do here in London. That’s great.

Do you have any current or upcoming projects you’d like to mention to our readers?

Han-kyul Kwon: What I’m making right now will be a kind of collage. I’m doing some musical stuff again. After I finished my project, I was thinking about making a sequel. But after the long-time listening practice from the project, I think now I can return to the musical styles that I used to do. Right now, I’m using those techniques again but in the structure of the song I’m trying to do something not-formal, something free-form.

So I’m experimenting with this idea and I’m making whatever music I want to make today. I feel joy when I’m doing something with randomness. I’m trying to blend the old method and the new sensation from the last project.

Also, if I were using Live Photo features again… I think the freshness and the shock of the sound which I experienced when I first found it is kind of gone. It’s really weakened.

AC: Right. You have to move forward. I guess if you tried to do that again, you might get just as frustrated as you got last time, because then you’re just repeating.

Han-kyul Kwon: That’s right.

AC: I appreciate how thoughtful you are about what you’re doing.

Han-kyul Kwon: Sometimes maybe I overthink it!

AC: …well I’ve certainly enjoyed talking to you. Thanks for the discussion.

Han-kyul Kwon: Thank you.