Tasos Stamou: Musique con Crète

Navel-Gazers #75 is an interview with Tasos Stamou who is going to talk to us about Musique Con Crète. This is firstly one of the all-time killer album titles I can think of. Perusing the artist’s discography prior to 2015 it appears that this was actually his first decisive venture into the genre of musique concrète, leading me to speculate whether the entire project was undertaken solely to do justice to that glorious pun? Whatever the story - and I suppose we’ll find out - the source sounds on this album, which are all one way or another from the Greek island of Crete, are assembled with exceptional fondness and care. I got lost a few times in the mystique of it all, my ears scrambling to discern between the archival recordings in the mix - ripped from old records and tapes, as described in the liner notes - versus elements which are recordings made by Tasos himself right there in contemporary, 21st century Crete. Above all I’m relieved: a work bearing this title has to have been inevitable, and I’m glad we got it from Tasos - who infuses the subject with his own playful, exploratory sensibility - instead of some humourless ethnomusicologist! He’s speaking to me not from Crete or here in his adopted home of London, but from his hometown which is somewhere near Corinth. And that is where this story begins…!

AC: Thanks for joining me on Navel-Gazers! Firstly could you please tell us about your background and your beginnings as an artist.

Tasos Stamou: Thanks for inviting me and for your interest. My background as an artist is primarily visual arts. I studied photography and was practicing photography from the age of 14, and was working as a professional and art photographer until 2005, when I decided to do a kind of turn in my career towards exploratory music.

I’m self-taught in music more or less, but I guess this particular area of exploratory music allows more than others for people to be self-taught, and self-contained in that sense. Since I started focusing on sound art, I started trying to make my own music obviously, out of very primal and simple electronics and by improvising as well.

Unavoidably I started hacking electronics to have more sound palettes in my hands, and practicing the so-called circuit bending technique, which led me to become a member of this weird society of hardware hackers for exploratory music production. I’m still definitely into that, and also making instruments for myself and for others, and I also do workshops - I actually have one this coming weekend in Athens.

Until a certain point, my music and the hardware hacking was one thing, and then these two things started dividing. They work in parallel now. I don’t necessarily record or perform with my own DIY instruments. Sometimes in connection, but not necessarily.

I’ve been recording and performing since 2007. I love both practices.

AC: How would you describe your relationship to this album’s namesake genre, musique concète?

Tasos Stamou: This is probably the best title that I will ever give to an album. It was an epiphany. The title came actually before the album, which was created in an artist residency I did in 2015. I was asked to give a title for the residency, so that’s when I came up with the “Musique Con Crète” title.

I was about to go to that residency - it was in July I remember - to develop some sound sculpture stuff. I’d been in London for years and I was really craving a big studio where I could do larger projects, and that was the place there in Crete. And I had plans to gather all this metallic trash from around and make some big sculptures.

…but then I had an accident, I broke my hand that summer. So I couldn’t lift even an instrument, I was in a pretty bad condition, and I had to rethink what I was going to do there. My idea was that I was not physically excellent but my mind still worked, so maybe I could come up with some project requiring less physical strength from me, maybe something more intellectual. Something like acousmatic music, or musique concrète.

I also had a slight concussion and I think that my mind was working slightly out of the box, as suddenly in that moment when I divided the “concrète” I realised that was what I was going to call the project. I was very excited.

People like this title already before they listen.

AC: Yes I was one of those!

I figured that probably the title must have come before the project, but the additional background about your injury, I did not know.

Tasos Stamou: For me it was actually a chance to work more precisely as a composer. All of my recordings before that were basically live recordings. I never had the opportunity to stand as a composer.

AC: There’s a sense with this album that you’re motivated to do justice to that concept.

Tasos Stamou: Exactly. It was my trip to Crete, and at the same time my trip to exploring all the things I like from musique concrète. In the end, it was that simple. I referred to a lot of techniques and tricks that some of my favourite musique concrète composers were applying, without hesitating to use my mind more than my hands.

I do play some instruments on the album, but I’d spend a couple of hours a day keeping a distance from the material to work with it.

Mike Cooper spent time with me in Crete. His work, and playing music together, was a massive inspiration.

AC: “Musique Con Crète” seems to feature three types of source sounds: found recordings, onsite or “field” recordings, and electronic performance elements. Please tell us all about how you gathered these sounds and combined them.

Tasos Stamou: I had two Zoom recorders, and I was traveling around Crete meeting people, having my ears opened to sounds and sonic situations, collecting them, editing them in the studio almost every day after I was picking up some. Also inviting some musicians and non-musicians in my studio to improvise, recording these sessions as well. Sometimes I’d invite over some friends and just have a feast, get a little tipsy and grab some instruments. I’d always remember to press record.

Also collecting some releases of local Cretan music - manipulating existing recordings like cassette tapes or vinyl that I would happen to find.

AC: At what sorts of places?

         (with Mike Cooper)

Tasos Stamou: The cassette tapes I found at an old record shop, one of these little shops that are almost closed, but the person who has it is just kind of waiting to get the pension. You get in, you’re not sure if it’s a shop or if it’s closed. They let me just grab some.

I got some records from locals who were happy to donate them to me.

AC: I was just in Malta, there’s a phenomenon over there where a lot of the bookstores are just in peoples’ houses, not listed on the internet or anything.

Tasos Stamou: Yeah not totally different.

…there’s an excitement about that.

AC: Yes.

From the first moments of track 1 Ballad Of The Crippled Gypsy we hear a drone, which is not how I think of Greek music, but then I realise I know nothing about Greek music! What do you think characterises the music of Greece and specifically of Crete?

Tasos Stamou: Well, it makes sense that you didn’t actually connect something very Greek to the first piece which although it’s the introduction, is maybe the only one which doesn’t have to do with Crete. It was made during a different time. And maybe this is why it’s the introduction. The narrative of the album is a bit like I’m not in Crete and I’m going to Crete.

AC: A journey to Crete.

Tasos Stamou: A journey to Crete yes. So on the first piece I’m still not in Crete! I was in my hometown near Corinth, a small seaside town.

But in terms of the principles of the composition, it’s a good introduction, that’s why I included it. Someone who hasn’t been in Crete but has something to say, something to explore, something to express, and the workflow of it inspired me to work on the material in Crete afterwards.

What I mean with workflow is there were some gypsy friends coming over to say hi in my yard, and one’s cousin came and he didn’t have any legs. He would have been pretty tall. Anyway I had my bouzouki there and he asked to play. So of course I pressed record, and he improvised this song which I found amazing.

I loved it. It was an improvisation on an existing song but it didn’t sound anything like it.

While listening to it I thought it had this very Indian vibe. The way he played the bouzouki, it sounded like a sitar or something. …so, I had this electronic box, what’s it called…

AC: A shruti box? Harmonium?

Tasos Stamou: …no…

…tamboura.

AC: Ah.

Tasos Stamou: So with this electronic tamboura, I just tuned it and put it on there and I thought that it’s like a raga. It’s this idea of working very simply with material that I’ve got in my hands and coming up with some sort of poetic conclusions. Just an instinctive reaction.

However the scale, which is pentatonic, that’s also something that’s very Greek. It’s more or less known but pentatonic is pretty big in many areas in Greece and you can find a similar way of singing - but not the expressive part of the singing - on the other side of the album, the last piece. Or the one before the last piece.

AC: Ah so is that more typically Greek music towards the end?

Tasos Stamou: That one is typically Cretan, It’s improvised sound poetry with roots to Byzantium.

AC: This is Rizitiko you’re referring to right?

Tasos Stamou: Yes. That’s what this type of improvised poetry is called, “rizitiko”, particularly sung in the south of Crete, or southwest.

AC: …I’m glad to know it wasn’t my imagination, about that first track.

Tasos Stamou: Totally on the spot.

AC: I’m also curious about a couple of specific voices heard in the recordings. On track 4 A Call from around 2 minutes in there is a mysterious voice talking. Who is this and what is being said?

Tasos Stamou: Yeah. It’s a field recording extract from Heraklion. In 2015 it was this weird political moment for Greece. There was lots of tension in the streets, and there were some protests and some gatherings.

AC: Oh yeah you know what, I remember this. That was all over the news wasn’t it?

Tasos Stamou: Yes it was a big thing. There was a referendum which was supposed to be a pretty big decision for Greeks, because somehow it would mean that if people would vote one way there was let’s say, a danger, that Greece would go out of the EU. And the banks were closed, as a little threat of what would happen if Greeks were to get more independence. That recording was of someone in the far left party at a gathering in the centre of Heraklion, describing and claiming what they’re standing for.

The reason I included it was that yes there are lots of protests in Greece - I grew up with that - always, when you were going somewhere there was a protest with someone on a megaphone saying some stuff. I heard this type of speech so many times that I would actually block it out. But I didn’t block it then, I thought I’d just sit and listen to what this person is saying. And I was totally agreeing with it, but was also just interested in the connotation, the way that someone talks, the references. Like where do they come from - well he had a little Cretan accent, or he had a lefty vocabulary, and so on.

Also it was a very personal moment for me because there was lots of tension, and nobody was sure what was going on. It felt like something great was supposed to happen, but it didn’t.

AC: It’s interesting how I couldn’t understand a word the person was saying but I could sense that there was some conviction to it.

Tasos Stamou: Did your mind try to imagine what it could have been?

AC: Of course. But I don’t think I quite get there. Maybe I more picture what the person looks like, or the surroundings. Like I pictured that he’s standing, outside. …there’s some kind of musicality to that, or something.

Tasos Stamou: Yes, I see. I’m curious because I’ve got this friend, a saxophone player, we used to play sort of altered Greek music together and once I was at his house and I played this song on my bouzouki. And he asked what the lyrics were about. So I told him it’s about this guy who lost his hash, and he can’t smoke anymore. And he said: oh I thought the lyrics were about some angel…

And I said well… take it as you like!

AC: Ha! Yeah, in a way.

Tasos Stamou: Right.

AC: …I think this is something I’ve learned from talking to people about their music. It’s ok to get a bit of context. It’s ok for me to find out now what the guy was saying - I liked the mystery on the first encounter, but it’s not going to ruin it for me to learn the background later. I can always remember the mystery and now, my understanding evolves.

Tasos Stamou: Definitely. You know, with this particular trilogy in which ‘Musique Con Crète’ is included, I think that information is very nice to have. I actually didn’t have credits on the first album which is this one, but on the other two albums I started being pretty detailed. I did start gradually on D.A.D., and on ANTIQUA GRAECIA I have a whole inlay which de-composes all the parts of the pieces.

I like to see this, where the different layers were recorded.

AC: Yeah being a trilogy I guess you got the feel for what you like to do.

But this first one, at least on the Bandcamp it doesn’t really say too much.

Tasos Stamou: Yeah but then on the other hand, the mystery of ‘Musique Con Crète’ not having credits is one of the reasons we’re having this interview now.

AC: That’s true.

So another voice, at the very start of 'Rizitiko’, what is that one? …before the singing.

Tasos Stamou: It’s a fruit salesman. On a lorry. It’s common in Greece and other places in the Balkans and Turkey. You get a van selling fruits and there’s a megaphone and someone is announcing what the fruits of the day are.

AC: Ah. And then to get a feel for the composition, would that have been recorded at a completely different time from the singing later on in the track?

Tasos Stamou: Yes. Maybe a couple of days before.

AC: Right.

…so, the cover art. I don’t know if it’s meant to be funny? it’s fun. What’s the story behind it?

Tasos Stamou: Well, it’s a collage I did. I wanted to have something very stereotypically Cretan on the cover, but still something I really like. The main background is a photograph from Knossos Palace, in the room of the king where there is this water drawing.

Then I took pictures from the Heraklion Museum of the Minoan civilisation, of these sculptures which are unlike anything I’ve seen before. Usually in elementary school in a history lesson, the main pictures you would see from the Minoan empire would be these frescoes, which remind you of Egyptian art, or Ionian. But I’d never seen these more African looking sculptures, which was something that astonished me on my visit to that museum. So I wanted to include these figurines.

And then there’s this character in the middle, she’s a little androgynous, dressed in the classic Cretan form with the black shirt and this black scarf on the head. But actually it’s a still from a 60’s comedy film, made by this diva of Greek comedy cinema in the 60s and 70s. It’s her in the image, dressed as a man.

Every Greek would know this, it’s like putting Marilyn Monroe on the cover!

Also, the film is a very stereotypical film about Crete. I was challenging myself a lot with the stereotypes about what is Cretan music, what is Cretan aesthetics. For me it was a nice joke to include this - for Greeks my age they have seen this film in the 80s and 90s on TV many many times, and many have created a stereotypical thing in our heads about what is Cretan.

At the same time, she’s also embracing a little lamb. I picked this particular image because there’s also an ancient statue of Hercules in this exact position. It’s not really a still from the film, it was a photoshoot so she has posed for this photograph. I don’t think she’s holding any lamb in the film, or maybe just for a few seconds.

Yeah not to go really far but this symbol is very old, a very strong symbol of someone holding a baby lamb on their shoulders.

AC: I’m sure I’ve seen that somewhere. …no idea where.

Tasos Stamou: Yeah even… early Jesus Christ…

AC: Ah that must be it. Yes.

Tasos Stamou: But then that’s an adaptation of much more ancient pictures.

AC: It’s iconic.

You seem to split your time between London and Greece. How do you think experimental music in Greece compares to our scene in the UK? I might head down there next year, what should I check out?

Tasos Stamou: Greeks really like experiments. …in music as well! I might say there’s not such a huge scene, because of a little lack of collaboration between amazing individuals, which sometimes can be an issue when you want to define a scene.

However there are still lots of people working with each other, challenging each other. I’ve been spending more time in Greece these days. I’ve been finding out that especially in Athens there are so many new venues, new vibes, and new people exploring new things. It’s pretty exciting these days.

AC: Yeah I saw that there was an improv workshop you could turn up to. …that’s when you know you have a good scene!

Tasos Stamou: Yeah exactly free improvisation, when that’s around, you know…

AC: …that’s when you know that people are getting together and playing.

Tasos Stamou: Exactly.

I’d compare it to what I was experiencing in London around 10 years ago. Getting maybe less risky sometimes… but of course there are some great establishments still, like the free improvised music in London, which is always there.

My only real complaint is that international artists very rarely make it to Greece - it always feels like a hassle because it’s at the very end. Maybe they end up in Greece and they can’t figure how to get back or to where they want to go. The flight connections were always good and cheap, but maybe now not that cheap anymore.

AC: What’s next for you, any current projects to mention to our readers or additional thoughts?

Tasos Stamou: I am preparing a new album, for the beginning of next year, which surprisingly is not so conceptual in its form as my latest albums.

Although these are compositions I’m trying to keep them more abstract, and trying not to give a strong narrative, just to let the music a bit loose.

AC: …are you enjoying that?

Tasos Stamou: I am, I just need to take some immediate decisions about titles and artwork, and although I’m really tempted to come up with a story, I’m trying not to. This week for instance, I’m thinking maybe it shouldn’t even have titles because if I start with titles then it will build up a whole story which well, why not? But… I don’t know.

AC: Sounds like… you want to give it room to breathe?

Tasos Stamou: Yeah, because the truth is there’s nothing behind these compositions, I just composed them without any reason. I didn’t have anything to say. Maybe I’ll keep something simple for the titles which will just give a little vibe, or essence to the tracks but then leave it.

AC: That’s so different to the album we just talked about. The opposite approach almost!

Tasos Stamou: Yes that’s right.

AC: I’ll look forward to hearing it, and comparing.

…thanks for talking to me.

Tasos Stamou: Thank you!

Tasos can be found at https://www.tasosstamou.com/ and on Bandcamp.